Ace was stiff today because I did not rug him last night, a big mistake. I had to lunge him first before we did a training session with SH this morning. I am still thinking about how it went, but it was very interesting indeed to try what he was suggesting and see what a difference it made.
We have also been discussing the modern dressage game and how it has changed over the last few years. We are getting increasingly unhappy with the way we are seeing more and more horses being ridden (hands carried very low, and set, forcing the horse into an "outline"; bits hoiked half way up the horse's head; nosebands so tight they are causing ridges in the nose; driving forward with the legs/seat into a heavy contact; constant overbending - scored highly in tests too; submission to the exclusion of personality) and it's not the way I want to train Ace. I have been riveted by a book "Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage" by Phillipe Karl and realise that I have a major problem with training/competing Ace the way things are going. We are evaluating what we plan to do about it, and when I have finished working it out, I'll let you know!
C
I am so with you on all of it. I have always valued correct training, but all too often have seen and know of horses "cranked" into a frame so they look on the bit, but are not really.
ReplyDeleteYears ago, the playing field was pretty level, with good training rewarded. But like so many horse sports, money intervened. People began spending more and more money on dressage horses and their expectations for the dollars spent demanded quick training and high scores.
The idea was to "buy" a winner, not "make" one, so quick training of expensive good movers became the norm sold to anyone with the money to pay.
I won't go on and on about it, but showing lost most of its appeal to me when it became less about the training and more about who had the better horse.
I do suspect that Ace will be able to do better in the upper levels where the real quality of training starts to show.
You've got it Jean. I can get great scores with Ace as he is now, but to go up the levels I will need to train him more, and I'm very unhappy about what is currently being taught as the right way to train.
ReplyDeleteI have done exactly that, and bought a winner, but to win at higher levels might require a squashing of his personality that I am not prepared to risk for the sake of "submission".
More thoughts on this subject soon!
C
And yet, if you see horses like Steffen Peters's Ravel, or Carl Hester's horses, you see upper level horses happy and correct in their work. I hear Hester is a superb trainer and Peters has to be as well, considering how his horses go.
ReplyDeleteSo, at the upper echelon, there are good trainers/riders. Trouble is, there are a hundred, "makeadollar" trainers out there as well, ready to sacrifice personality and good solid training for scores. (Rolkur one of the favored methods as are draw reins, and all kinds of gimmicky training equipment.)
Interestingly enough, some of those top horses never show at the lower levels but only appear in the show arena when they are working at PSG or so. All the training is done at home, taking the time to develop them as athletes before putting them out in public.
Carl Hester also trains overbent Jean. I had a trainer once who trained with him. :-(
ReplyDeleteC
I went on an extremely interesting clinic with a Phillipe Karl pupil. Although I had about 4 or 5 lessons over a couple of days it could only be a "taster session." However, my horse had never gone better, he felt like a real horse and was using himself correctly (for the first time ever?).
ReplyDeleteThe finished result is the same, but the road to reach it is different. It made a lot of sense. There are some riding instructors currently on a 3 year course with Phillipe Karl in England. They have to attend so many clinics per year and at the end of the 3 years will be able to teach "his" methods. Of couse, they aren't really his, it is re-interperanting (sp?) the French school of equition.
Some people as always, get hold of one or two issues and condem the whole concept, such as Phillip saying that the hands should be high. The hands CAN be high, for a few seconds, but that is not to say that everyone rides round with their hands in their chest!
I was very pleased with the results, but I haven't really continued a) because after the last dressage test I did - before the above clinic - I felt like cutting my throat and I haven't bothered since.
b) I think I would like some help from an instructor who has been on the course.
c) My horse is 14, do I want to teach him this method? If I had a younger horse, and I was younger I would definitely do this.
If you are intersted in going down this route, it is well worth investigating but there might be one or two things to ponder first - would need a pm I think.
Whether or not you will have a "competition" dressage horse at the end of it I don't know, but you should have a well schooled horse.
Judith I am transfixed by the Philippe Karl accepetance that high hands are correct, at the right point in time. I have always done it, by instinct (an been severely criticised and/or marked down for it), but his book explains why it is correct to do it. The session I had with SH yesterday was, in some ways, stunning, and I often had very high hands. I am still working out how I feel about it and what to write about it, but it's coming!
DeleteC
"Whether or not you will have a "competition" dressage horse at the end of it I don't know"
DeleteI seriously am not concerned, Judith. I want ride proper Grand Prix movements for the thrill of ridign tempis, passage and piaffe. I want to "compete" for somewhere to go (preferably with a nice cafe!!!) and to have movements to aim for.
I want Ace to achieve GP movements with lightness and joie do vivre, not because I make him do it. If that does not win in modern dressage, tough.
I'd love to win. But not at the cost to the horse that I see in modern dressage riding. The Phillipe Karl book quotes the most extraordinary statistic - in 1978, the average working life of insured dressage horses was 5.5 years. Most of them were already ruined physically before ten years old. That simply cannot be acceptable, can it?
C
No it isn't but unfortunately we have become a throw a way society who wants instant results regardless of the impact on the horse.
DeleteHowever, it is possible to do it differently and still be successful. My horse is now 20, still improving, is flexible, well muscled and sound as a bell. He has qualified for the regionals a number of times and won his 1st advanced medium. I don't buy into the training methods I see around me and simply work on good old fashioned correct basics improving his balance, straightness, agility and joy de vivre ! There is nothing quite like playing with changes as you canter around a stubble field on a horse who revels in the vitality and lightness of his own body. I think you have to be quite single minded and bolshy to maintain what you are doing in a competition atmosphere and try and block out those around you whose methods you dislike. At the end of the day going home with a sound, fit and happy horse is the important bit!
That's inspiring Kate, thankyou. Bolshie and single minded I identify with. SH and I have decided to set our own game plan and measure Ace's performances against what we expect of him. If that doesn't match what the judge wanted on the day, we'll enjoy our coffee and put the score aside.
DeleteIt is so nice to know that I'm not alone.
C
I know what you mean by the modern dressage thing.. I prefer watching the eventing dressage as it seems less "conflicted" and lighter.. Twisted Truths is a great book and has really helped me understand the importance of lateral work. Spent today glued to the laptop watching Day 1 of the eventing.
ReplyDeleteSomeone else to consider if your are up for the old French work (Baucher's 2nd manner, which was after his accident and very very different from his first .. which is what most people think of) is Craig P Stevens comes over from the states for clinics.. and is very interesting.. well worth auditing and the theory session is fascinating and very thought provoking. I think my sister is riding at his next clinic later in August.. something I'd love to do and one of the things that makes me think I should move south! Let me know if you want details of it.
yes please!
DeleteC
I know a couple of people who are on the dressage circuit and the wastage in horses is worryingly high. Quite a lot become "untrainable" and in both yards they have had horses PTS for behaviourial issues. One in particular stood quietly on my trailer for over an hour while we were loading a horse into another trailer. I was shocked to hear a few weeks later that he had been PTS.
ReplyDeleteYou should read Phillip Karl's story about "his" horse Oscar, the one he rode at the Cadre Noir - he was far from easy and there were lots of political issues going on, but he was trained to become the star of their display of haute ecole.
I wold love to go to Samur sometime.
Shocking story Judith.
DeleteC
Jules McInnes is your person.. organising.. It's posted as an event on FB https://www.facebook.com/events/235528056561763/ and I thought it was later in August.. but is 4th - 6th so sooner than I thought.. It's at Hulberts Green Farm Brinkworth Chippenham Wiltshire UK SN15 4AR I don't have Jules contact e-mail phone etc but can prob get it from my sister.. if you don't do FB... I don't really either.. got lured into last year for my sisters foal.. well her mares .. you know what I mean ;)
ReplyDeleteOK have Jule's contact details. Just don't want to post them publicly.. can you pm me via Pheonixhorse if you need them..
ReplyDeleteAll the best Sue
Darn too soon and too far for that soon... I guess there will be more, perhaps closer?
DeleteC
I think most are based down in Wiltshire now.. not sure Craig holds clinics elsewhere .. unless you fancy a trip to Sweden.. incidentally there's a blog on my list .. the Search for Equipoise written by a Swedish Craigite .. best person to speak to would be Jules who organises his uk clinics I think. The other option is to go out to his base in Seattle... Nicky (sister) has been out a few times now. Having just spoken to Nicky she's not riding only auditing as has only just got back from 10 days in Seattle... just a bit green with envy here...
ReplyDeleteSue