Radar is no different today and it looks like I'll be calling for an xray on Monday so we can find out what is going on in that foot.
Ace was horrid. I hacked out and he was so nappy that at one point I had to get off. He simply refused to walk past a herd of sheep that have been in that field all year. There was a churned up patch (which he could not see) that indicated that they had been worming the flock, and perhaps he smelt something that made him feel anxious, but really it's a poor excuse and I was very disappointed in him.
I have no option but to get off, as he has now escalated his napping to include small bucks. I simply can't take the risk of being bucked off on a road, even with an air jacket on.
He spooked the whole time, and he napped badly twice more, but I didn't have to get off for those, I was eventually able to turn him and persuade him to go where I wanted.
But at home, he simply would not allow me to choose when we were going to go in the gate. I got off and walked him more than halfway back down the hill, thinking that would make him realise that if he didn't do what I wanted it would just result in more work. Instead it made him worse. I tried walking him past the gate in hand, then getting on and riding back past it, but he began to feel dangerous and not just obstinate.
So I got off, put the reins behind the stirrups and turned him into my friend's field directly opposite the gate, where I left him to cogitate on his sins until I had done some stuff with Radar and calmed myself right down too.
I can honestly say I hate him today. I feel lousy from a flu jab yesterday, which my immune system appears to think is full blown flu, and I have worked so hard and so long to get things right for him. Just when I begin to get on an even keel with the schooling, he won't even do a hack he knows inside out without feeling dangerous.
I really think I deserve better, but that's horses for you.
C
Bugger, how strange when he schooled so nicely yesterday, totally understand how you feel, but you're right.. that's horses! How is he to tack up now? Is there an outside chance the saddle needs altering with his new bigger movement he's found. He really is such a complex horse, you've had a glimpse of his new softer character, can't help wondering if he's still trying to tell you something.
ReplyDeleteLyndac
PS hope you're feeling better soon x
DeleteHe's excellent to tack up and mount, and ride out of the yard and accepted every correction during our ride. He just wouldn't accept going back and forth past the open gate she he could see Radar stood in his stable. I'm happy that his poor behaviour did not result in him achieving his goal, and that he understands that. I'll be hacking out again tomorrow.
DeleteC
Darn! Just when things were going so well. He sounds a lot like Tucker. How much TB is in his breeding, I wonder. The two of them could be brothers the way Ace behaves. Had to get off Tucker and lead him home the last trail ride I took on him...on a trail he knew really well....*sigh* Try to chalk it all up to a bad day for both of you.
ReplyDeleteStill, we don't know what kind of training he had prior to your owning him. He was probably forced to do a lot more than his poor back could handle, so some of his behavior is deep rooted.
And, we have to remember that one of the challenges of riding is coping with a living, breathing, thinking being under us that we are trying to get to do what we want, despite his natural instincts to do what he wants.
Getting the vet out for Radar sounds like a good idea at this point. This thing has been going on for too long. Wishing you both well.
Yes vet o. Monday for Ace I think, though there was a whiff of something on the hoof pick tonight.
DeleteC
Caroline,
ReplyDeleteI’ve followed your blog for a long time but never felt drawn to comment - you train your horses your way and I’ve always doubted being able to say much to change your mind. But now, for aces sake, I simply have to point out that:
You have set yourself and the horse up for this. You have effectively trained him to be the leader, to call the shots and to decided what he does, where, and how quickly. Each and every time you ask for a transition in the school and he doesn’t give you it, each time you let him chose to trot/canter and you accept him telling you no, each time he pulls and tries to go up a gear and you just let him. You are training him NOT to listen to you, NOT to stay on the aids and NOT to respect you as a leader or trainer.
Each and every one of your horses has ended up the same way; bargy, unsettled and showing signs of illogical behaviour. There are no clear and consistent boundaries in your training methods and it is this that horses thrive on, firm but fair black and white. They do not understand inconsistent boundaries, unclear aims etc and they certainly do not understand being "left to cogitate their sins".
There is a saying – ‘if you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got’ and that could not be truer here.
You need help from someone who has a track record at turning tricky horses around with long term results because the way you are handling this situation is not helping ace to progress. Ace is obviously sharp and clever, and he is going to continue to take advantage of the lack of boundaries and lack of discipline by making the comfort zone smaller and smaller and smaller until he is unrideable.
For this horses sake, either sell him on to someone who can help him, or get someone to help you help him.
If this post gets deleted, or I get blocked, so be it. I can only hope that you at least consider if your training methods are really appropriate, and that you decide to do something before its too late to turn ace around. He’s a talented horse who deserves a shot at being re-schooled in a way he can relate to.
Regards,
Fran Turner.
Fran thank you for your comments.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate that you are trying to help, but actually I have a track record of turning horses around. I turned Jazz around and he was far, far worse than Ace. For thirty years I have bought the horses other people have failed with and turned them around. Or I've bought unbroken and trained them up to affiliated event myself.
So I do not feel that I am failing Ace, and your comments are, I feel out of place when you have never met the horse, or me.
If anyone else out there can't understand that 'corporate on his sins' is a figure of speech used among much other flowery language to make my blog enjoyable for you all to read, please don't bother logging into it again.
ReplyDeleteC
Cogitate, that should have said :-)
ReplyDeleteCaroline; I understand the theory of entertaining writing, but the fact is you have turned a tacked up horse loose in a field. Can you clarify what you think this has taught him (I am genuinely interested). To my mind he willhe will only connect the napping with you dismounting and him having time in the field to do as he wishes. I also think this is an incredibly unsafe situation.
ReplyDeleteAs we can be honest, I'm afraid I would not consider Jazz a success story as he was never successful competitively and his behaviour on the ground is well documented as being unruly, difficult and unpredictable.
You need to take the emotion out of this as best you can. This is always easier with any horse other than your own and I understand how hard it is. However you cannot complain that you "deserve better" - we reap what we sow. If the results are not those you desire, look to the training.
Please read back over your blog since aces OP: as you allow him to dictate the pace in the school, he now thinks it's his right to dictate out hacking also. Horses are simple creatures who crave clear boundaries.
Fran
Fran, I've been reading this blog and its forerunner for years and rarely, if ever, have questioned Caroline's ability as a trainer and rider. She has rehabbed a number of difficult horses successfully. Right now, she is giving Ace the benefit of the doubt with some of his behavior and tolerating a little reluctance on his part, well aware that just a few months ago, each ride caused him serious back pain.
ReplyDeletePain memory in a horse is very long and can be very hard to overcome. I have had a number of experiences with this myself. What you may perceive as "letting Ace get away with things," is just a kind and understanding reaction to his present state of mind. I have owned at least three sensitive, difficult to deal with horses and know that sometimes a compromise is much better than forcing an issue, especially when it may cause a blow up. There is often a much better way to train than demanding when the horse really requires asking.
Jazz was working beautifully for Caroline before his physical issues became overwhelming. Her previous horse, Tetley, was beautifully trained and very successful in competition. She has gone far beyond the norm to help Ace reach his potential and I am certain she will succeed.
I admire her talent, but even more, I admire her dedication to always doing what is best for her horses.
Fran: We do not all measure success by competitive results - thank God! I'm sure you must be aware that many good competition results in the horse world are achieved through questionable methods. But I digress.
ReplyDeleteI am astounded that you have seen fit to offer your unsolicited opinion in such a damning way, having never met Caroline or her horses. How can you possibly say that 'each and every one' of her horses has been 'bargy and unsettled' - have you ever handled them? As for Caroline's decision to 'allow him to dictate the pace', would you advocate completely ignoring feedback from a horse who is in recovery? It seems to me that one of Caroline's strengths is her ability to 'listen' to and read her horses and respond appropriately with their welfare the priority. This is certainly the approach I would want and, should I have a tricky horse to deal with, I would have no hesitation in approaching Caroline for advice whereas I fear your 'clear boundaries' and 'discipline' would be far too unsympathetic for me.
Caroline: Keep up the good work!
Sam J
Fran: How sad that, like so many horse women, you felt it necessary to add your tuppence worth when it was not requested. I have followed Caroline's blog for many years now and although she invites discussion, the criticism you gave was out of order. Have you spent time with C and her horses to give this "advice"? I doubt it. If the advice you've given is the way you would rehab a horse recovering from spinal surgery then I hope you never have to do as such.
ReplyDeleteAnd "Each and every one of your horses has ended up the same way; bargy, unsettled and showing signs of illogical behaviour". So how about the gorgeous Tetley, now in the USA? Or Zippy, doing affiliated dressage in Tenerife(?). Or George, gone to be a young girl's everything. You say you're a time reader but you evidently have selective memory.
I will never be half the horsewoman C is but what I most admire is her common sense and unemotional approach to her horses. I recognise that everyone has different ways of doing things but attacking another for her methods is never the way to do anything.
S
Well said Fran.
ReplyDeleteCaroline posts a public blog, it is therefore not remotely 'out of order' that someone who is a good horsewoman herself should not query/question Caroline's approach or methods.
Anyone that decides to take on tricky/unbroken/difficult horses should have nerves of steel - the absolute worst thing for an unsure or difficult horse is to have someone on top that is struggling with their nerve. It's a recipe for disaster.
One, you are an anonymous coward. Have the guts to give a name will you?
ReplyDeleteTwo I did not say that it was out of order to comment, I said it was out of order to coninue to argue about things which I had already corrected.
Three, I completely agree with you that anyone rehabbing a horse with behaviour issues should have nerves of steel. But I have the horse I have, and I have to work with it.
Four, it hasn't been a disaster, it's been, so far, a complete and total success. I have back the sweet, quiet and kind warmblood which I thought I had bought in the first place. No horse could have been more kind, gentle and cooperative than the one I rode this morning.
Next time you want to have a go at me, give your name or your message will be deleted.
C Trayes.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy blog my rules Cassie, your comments are not welcome thanks.
ReplyDeleteYou need to delete the other comment too Caroline, no trace of a difference of opinion remember ;)
ReplyDelete...oh and this one. Sorry for all the extra work.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDidn't read it cassie, got better things to do with my time.
ReplyDeleteC