I spent 45 minutes on Jazz doing leg yield. That's £1 a minute to do leg yield. I do accept that Jazz started off bent right, he always does and I let him warm up like it because he goes well quite quickly if I do. But she had made me put an earpiece in my ear and was giving me a non-stop flow of dialogue and really was totally uninterested in asking me why I was doing what I was doing. It was one-way only. She said "I expect you'll tell me that it's because he's not warmed up ..... errrr, yes ...... but wasn't interested in discussing it with me at all, just telling me that I had the basics all wrong and shouldn't even be trying half pass until I had gone back to basics and got him straight.
Just to remind ourselves, this is him this morning, he ain't a donkey:
Ace? I told her that I felt I needed to work Ace on the right rein, and as soon as he got a bit nappy she had me ride on the left rein instead. She said he needs to understand the left leg so I can stop him napping left on the right rein. Yes, maybe, but first of all he needs to learn that napping will not get him what he wants.She also said that when he is going out through his left shoulder and napping to the gate that I must on no account turn him left 360 degrees so he is back going in the direction I want. She says that he has won if I do that because he got to turn left. I disagree totally. When he is going out through his left shoulder he is achieving his objective of getting to the gate. When I spin him back on the line I want, he has failed to achieve his objective. His objective is not to turn left, it's to get to the gate. It is more important, I believe, that he should not achieve that objective than it is that he should continue on the right rein.
At one point in Ace's lesson I would even say that she "trapped" me to put me in the wrong. It's how it felt, anyhow. She instructed me to turn down the 3/4 line and leg yield out. After several minutes she instructed me to take a 15m bend onto the quarter line and leg yield, and then pointed out how much easier that was to get him straight on the 3/4 line, and why hadn't I been taking that line before? Well, because she didn't tell me to!
She also criticised me a lot for being "fuzzy" and not clear enough where I wanted Ace to go. Two things were going on there - one is she was talking non-stop, on and on and on in my ear, and I was trying to ride at the same time as listening to what she was telling me to do. Secondly, she had seen Ace do a phenomenally sharp spin and buck which sent her running for cover, and I really was trying to concentrate on making sure he didn't catch me out again. If a few wavery lines were the price of staying on, so be it.
I've actually learnt a lot today - about why I got on so well with Sonia and how I might make it work again with her. I have never been so much on a trainer's wavelength. Today was not fun, and surely it should be?
C.
Oh, I hate that. But over the years, I have honestly learned to "talk back" to people like that. I will even stop what I am doing and insist they explain. But, even so, I have also allowed myself to be abused by such "know it alls." They seem to think that by belittling their students they will prove how good they are.
ReplyDeleteIt drives me nuts. Teachers are supposed to be firm, but supportive. If something goes wrong, it's wise to stop, evaluate the problem...and ask for the rider's input. Does the horse do this all the time? What do you do to correct it? And then...if applicable...well, I think this might be a better way and here's why.
Finding a good teacher/trainer is not easy. When you "click" with someone, it's great. When you don't, you are wasting your time and money.
So what's up with Sonia? Is there a way to work with her again?
Just wonder too, if Jo has the background for your ambitions. You need a skilled upper level rider who's done FEI at this point--ideally Grand Prix. A trainer like that will have been through most of the "talented horse" training issues you are encountering and will be better able to help you sort things out.
Shes's a list 1 International 4* judge and Grand Prix rider Jean - just not the right one!
ReplyDeleteC
Gosh, what an anti-climax for you! I logged on expecting to read great things, what a shame.
ReplyDeleteI too have had some experiences like this. I wont name the 2 trainers involved but both are very well known and both were very discouraging. One even telling me to "sell it and get something decent".
I hate it when they wont listen to you, try to force your horse into their way of going and there is NO compromise. A good trainer should be all about the horse and rider as individuals. Their training style should be adjustable to different combinations, not the same for everyone cos that's how it should be. Sometimes the end result has to be arrived at in very different ways!
My old trainer who selfishly moved to Houston (lol), used to say that there are some very talented trainers out there who have a wealth of knowledge to share, they just don't know how to impart it.
I hope you find someone who knows their stuff and can help you develop your boys obvious natural talent. I'd let you have mine but we're too far away and I've told her, she can never leave!!! Hahaha.
xxx
How very annoying - move to Houston! How dare they :-))) Not as bad as telling you to get rid of your horse though!
ReplyDeleteI'm sure she knows her stuff but I'm 53 and I really don't take to being talked "at" like a child who doesn't know my ABC. For me training has to be a collaberation. My weakness, but also my money so I can vote with my feet, all ten of them :-)
C
How disappointing for you but hey horses for courses I think some people at the highest levels tend to think they are God but others are really down to earth. Just because she can ride and judge at the top level doesnt make her a born teacher! I had a lesson of a Master Judge and what a miserable old cow she was. She didnt like me or my horse and moaned consistently for 45 mins about her Sciatica. Well I am sorry my money is as good as the next person's and it's her job to get the most out of me, my horse and work with what she has got. Thats her job not mine! You will find someone who clicks and maybe that is Sonya but keep trying and put this one down to experience a very expensive experience!
ReplyDelete"Well I am sorry my money is as good as the next person's and it's her job to get the most out of me, my horse and work with what she has got. Thats her job not mine! "
ReplyDeleteWhat a great point!
C
Didn't notice the Grand Prix experience in her bio...interesting. Wonder if she "made" the Grand Prix horse or just rode it. There is a judge around here with FEI credentials who really is not much of a rider/trainer. She rode a "made" horse to the upper levels to qualify.
ReplyDeleteOne of my worst lessons was with an "I" judge who was just plain useless and rude. Another Olympic rider I rode with taught me nothing and totally confused me about what he supposedly wanted. My friend and I looked at the video of the clinic later and both agreed we had no idea what he was talking about!
Absolutely, 200%, it should be fun! I had much of the conversation that I see in these comments, with a friend today. I too am looking for a trainer but I won't settle for just anyone. I think back over the years of the things I put up with that I felt were wrong, that now I know were wrong and I wonder why I didn't speak out. Absolutely, it should be fun!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes you are looking for advice and support, but you know your horses and they don't, certainly not on the first lesson. How many times have we heard that each horse is an individual? Has your experience with Jazz for the last (how many?) several years been worth nothing? And Ace, you have learned so much about him, and ride him so bravely, though those little "kick outs" and evasions. I'd like to see her go hunting like you do on Radar!
It was even worse than not listenting to my experience with Jazz really ML. All the time I was riding Ace, she was making comments that were almost impossible not to interpret as telling me that I had failed to train Jazz right at Ace's age, and that is why he had given me trouble. She strongly implied that because I had ridden him badly at 4/5 he behaved badly to escape my bad riding. I believe that IS actually what she was trying to say, and she said it over and over. Today I am remembering more stuff and feeling she was even worse than I thought in the first place. Of course I might be a totally crap rider and she's the only one who's ever been brave enough to tell me :-) !!
ReplyDeleteC
Often one does remember more in the days after as your brain works through the memory. It's hard to believe that this woman has any clients at all! If only she knew the beautifully trained horse I have that you are completely responsible for. I suspect that she has preconceived notions though. Ask around - I bet many others have had the same experience that you have had. And, don't doubt yourself - you know your horses - and, like all of us, you are learning all the time.
ReplyDeleteI type this as I wait for the floor finishers to arrive (any minute now). Then I will hightail it out of here for 2.5 days. You would laugh. Every day I mix in cut up apples, carrots, bananas and pears into Tetley's extra feed. I made sure this morning to cut enough for three days :-)
Sounds horrendous! I remember watching someone have a lesson with Ulla Salzgeber at Your Horse Live some years ago and she just yelled instructions non stop at the poor girl - it sounded rather like a racing commentary. Your lesson sounds as though it may have been similar!
ReplyDeleteL
Jealousy is a terrible thing..... with two such stunning talented boys can't help wondering if she may habve been chanelling some green eyed monster in that attitude
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible to do what you are told and/or concentrate on your riding, Liz, when the instructor never shuts up! And downright depressing when they never say "good, well done".
ReplyDeleteI'd love your theory to be right Sarah :-)
ML you spoil him! Pear??? Banana??? I don't even get them for the house :-) !
C.
Rubbish!!! Trust your instincts, they've served you well over the years, this woman sounds like a nightmare and would quickly send your relationship with Ace backwards.
ReplyDeleteI am secretly hoping that you can find a way to work with Sonja again, if you can I think that would be a good move, remember the big progress you made with Jazz and Zippy with her. We all make mistakes, maybe she's learnt from hers with you?
T
I think you are right Tracey and in fact I have just got off the phone from leaving Sonya a message. We made three mistakes between us. We did not realise that changing his bits so that he was more comfortable also made it easier for him to ignore them. We did not spot that his saddle was moving far too far forward and unbalancing both of us. And we did not realise that his acid stomach had returned. Sonia's own personal foible of being always late was a factor that got so irritating when other things weren't going well that it became an issue. The last straw was her allowing me to lose my temper, but that is my own responsibility too and she did not make me do it!
ReplyDeleteI have never got on so well with a trainer and I think I will really enjoy training Ace with her and upping Jazz's game too.
We'll see what she says about starting after Allan's op is done.
C
I got cross today! I realised that I started off by telling Jo Graham that I was very, very experienced in sorting out behvioural difficulties in horses, so that if I said Jazz was difficult, he was difficult, it was not me not knowing what I was doing. She seemed to accept that, and then proceeded to give me orders about how to ride Ace when he napped.
ReplyDeleteI was out on a walk with SH this morning (a slow one, and getting slower every day!) and I suddenly realised that I probably know more than she does about sorting out bad nappers, never yet having failed with one, so who the hell is she to lecture me on how to ride my own horse!
Gosh, feels good to have got that off my chest!
C
Tee hee, glad you feel better, you're thoughts are spot on. Good luck with Sonya, I hope its possible for you two to get together again.
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed for Allan. xx